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Squidmar's latest video is horrifically misleading
Not trying to stir any drama here, but there is a lot of misinformation and lack of understanding around the costs associated with keeping our favourite hobby alive. Squidmar's latest video seems to be an attempt to combat that, but they made some pretty serious omissions and I wanted to challenge those in a space that isn't the hellhole that is YouTube comments. The conclusion the video reaches is that it costs $30,000 for a basic ten model kit, and $60,000 for a large special kit. They used a tactical squad and angron as the example images for each. I think the numbers they used to reach these totals are probably about right, there's a lot of estimation but overall probably within 10-15%. However they completely left out at least three major sources of cost that all contribute to the cost of the models: facilities, the moulds, and the costs for running the company. They do mention that there are other jobs at GW that aren't directly involved in making models, such as HR, legal, insurance etc. But they just brush this off as if it doesn't matter and make no attempt to include this in their conclusion. Salaries are a huge expenditure for any company, GW is a global scale company, those salaries will be many millions in total. Not to mention they deliberately keep jobs in the UK which means higher salaries and a lot of associated costs because the UK has pretty decent employment laws. Obviously you can't add those salaries onto the cost of one kit, but model sales are GWs biggest revenue source by far so the price does have to pay for those salaries. GWs facilities costs are also astronomical. Just on retail space they operate over 500 stores worldwide. The rent alone is going to be many millions again. You also have to have at least one staff member per store, you need to pay for inventory at that store, and shipping to and from the store. On top of this there are things like warehousing, distribution and their three (soon to be four) factories. Again that's another load of many millions of cost. You also need specialised equipment at the factories, the injection moulding machines will cost millions. The mould making is not touched on in the video, they mention sprue layout but stop there. Now this is where I got annoyed with the squidmar team. They pinned a comment that mentions they estimate $12,000 for one mould. So they say it would be $12k for the tactical squad and $36k for angron. Now the reason they have these numbers is because they have had moulds commissioned. There is no excuse for them to have left this information out of the video, and it massively changes the final numbers. They are also likely wrong. Multiple people in the comments point out that an injection mould can cost 10s of thousands of dollars, but it can also go up into the 100s of thousands. GW are very well known for the high quality and high level of detail of their models. They have been at the cutting edge of injection mould making in some regards for quite a while. Things like the thickness of the parts are actually surprisingly challenging to pull off. If you compare an airfix, revell or bandai kit to GW you will basically always find that GWs parts are a lot thicker and chunkier than others. They do that so the models can handle regular gaming, but it has an engineering cost. Don't forget that GW also does all of this in-house. The vast majority of injection moulded models come from Asia, probably China. This likely includes the $12k that squidmar are talking about, they will have gone for the cheapest option that worked for them. Not criticising them for this, they don't have the funds to do what GW does, it would be the right choice for them. If you're still reading, thank you for getting this far, sadly I have a bit more to say. GW are making record profits, they have been for quite some time. It seems obvious to say that they could lower their prices and still make money. But what effect would doing that actually have on our hobby? GW doesn't just take all that profit and put it in the CEO or shareholders bank accounts. A very large portion of it goes back into the business as investment and capital. Those three factories will have been funded by those record profits, as well as the new one. GW pays all of its staff members an annual bonus based on profits, everyone from the CEO to the janitors gets the same amount. This varies by year but has been as high as £5000. Per employee. The important part for us though is the sheer number of kits that GW make. Every single one takes a ton of financial investment which won't break even untill a lot of kits are sold. Each one is a risk. Space marines are safe, those will always sell like hotcakes. But if they make a new box of Tau pathfinders that will take a lot longer to break even. The safest plan would be to invest in just a few kits at a time and only start making more once the last lot are seen to be selling well. GW doesn't do that though. The number of plastic kits they release per year is honestly staggering. There were about 30 kits released for 40k last year. They also made kits for kill team, heresy, AoS, underworlds, warcry, LotR, necromunda, legions imperialis, blood bowl and the old world (that ones costs are different though, there is cost involved with bringing old kits back but I have no clue what they would be). All of that is only possible if GW takes on big investment risks. Risks are usually bad in business, but GW can afford to take these risks because of the record profits. If they have a bad year it would suck, but the company would survive. If GW dropped their prices (or stoped increasing them) then we would see a big cut in the number of kits released per year, and the number of supported factions and games. My last point is on those price increases. No one likes them, I hate to see that number go up. But in general (there are some notable exceptions) the cost of a box of models in real terms money has not changed much. For example a tactical squad was $35 in 2005, now it is $60. $35 dollars with inflation would be $56.93 so only $3.07 increase over 20 years. The empire flagellants have actually gone down by a few dollars. TLDR: GWs prices are high, but there is reason for that and lowering them would have an impact on our hobby. Squidmar failed to communicate this properly in their recent video and I think they have a duty to do better considering the size of their audience. submitted by /u/TheShryke to r/Warhammer40k [link] [comments]
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reddit.com |
TheShryke |
Mar 10, 2025 |
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[Model Kits/Military Aircraft] "At Least 90% Accurate" The time a model kit company revealed a military black project (except not really) and ruined their reputation in the process.
Okay, so to start us off here, I gotta talk briefly about how the US military names their planes. Starting in 1962, all aircraft used by all branches of the US military fit into the same naming system. The prefix letter tells you what the aircraft’s role is (C for cargo, F for fighter, R for recon, etc.), and the numbers are sequential. The F-15 was designed and built before the F-16 but after the F-14. There are a few exceptions to this rule, of course. F-13 was skipped over on account of triskaidekaphobia (there's your $10 word for the day), and sometimes designations are retained when a plane switches roles. The F-35, for instance, was the X-35 during development, but when it entered production as a proper fighter jet, kept the number. However, there was one designation that was skipped over for… no apparent reason. In the late 70s, after the F-18 Hornet was developed, the next plane should have been the F-19, but instead Northrop (the manufacturers of said airplane) requested they jump straight to F-20. The official line on this was that Northrop wanted to avoid any similarities with the typically odd-numbered Soviet plane designations, but this hadn’t stopped them from accepting the F-17, or later F-23 designations. So what was the deal? Stealth Jet Mania Well, it just so happened that at the time, the United States Air Force was grappling with a new reality of air combat: radar guided Surface-to-Air missiles. Vehicle mounted, long range, and very deadly, enemy forces could effectively close off any airspace within a few miles of a spot they could park a big truck. This being considered generally unfavorable by American pilots and generals alike, there began a grand effort by the Air Force to invest in what they were calling Stealth Technology. I won’t get into all the details, but essentially by designing planes in certain ways, and using special paints and construction materials, it’s possible to make it so that an airplane reflects less radar waves than it “should” for an object of a given size. So instead of showing up on radar scans as being airplane-sized, they show up as being bird-sized, or smaller. This is a notable change from previous stealth airplanes, which mainly utilized good old fashioned camouflage, or flying so high up that no one can see you, or flying so goddamn fast that it doesn’t even matter if they try to shoot us down, because we can outrun their missiles. Unfortunately, radar and missile technology were catching up with those strategies, and so the military decided to start pumping resources into capital S Stealth Tech. Now, as much as they would’ve liked to keep this a secret, there were inevitably some details that slipped out. One particular event that attracted plenty of media attention was a plane crash that occurred outside Bakersfield, CA in July of 1986. Although local police and firefighters were the first ones on the scene, they were pretty quickly told to get the hell out by a bunch of soldiers that rolled up. The military then closed off the airspace in a six mile radius, surrounded the crash site with armed sentries, and kept many as four or five helicopters in the air, constantly circling the area. Naturally, this attracted the attention of the press who wanted to sneak a peek of the X-files episode happening in real time in front of them. Although the Air Force actually specifically denied that it was a crashed stealth fighter, and even salted the site with the remains of an entirely different airplane to misdirect anyone who went digging around later, it was pretty clear to everyone watching that SOMETHING was up. The most popular (and of course, most accurate) theory was that it was a crashed stealth jet of some kind. So, given that F-19 was a “missing” designation, and there seemed to be a secret stealth project the Air Force wouldn’t admit existed, it didn’t take a whole lot to put two and two together and assume that this mysterious F-19 was some kind of highly advanced stealth fighter. Now, I would be remiss to mention that there was also a bit of controversy at the time involving military spending on black budget projects. The Carter administration was taking some heat for canceling the B-1 bomber program, and then taking more heat for revealing the existence of the B-2 stealth bomber, in what was seen as disclosing defense secrets to score political points, but I’m not here to talk about any of that. No no, I’m here to talk about a model kit. The F-19 isn't real. But it could be, couldn't it? See, in 1985, when the public consciousness was fully onboard with “super secret stealth fighter,” the Testor model kit company was looking for a way to pump their sales a little bit. These days, Testor mainly sells paints and craft accessories, but back in the 80s, they were all in on selling kits. And they were pretty good at it, too. Now, I don’t know if you know this, but military model people? They’re batshit insane over getting the details right. I’m talking color-matching paint so that it fits the right shade of blue for Soviet aircraft painted specifically in the summer of a particular year. I’m talking buying dedicated tools for re-scribing rivets on plastic model surfaces. I’m talking carefully hand bending photo-etched brass sheets the size of a grain of rice because the injection-molded parts that come with the kit are slightly out of scale. Seriously. And I love them for it. But the point I want to drive home here is that military model kit companies know this, and they take accuracy pretty seriously. At the time, Testor’s main audience were people like airline pilots and aerospace engineers, and their designers came from the same stock. Models were based on official blueprints of actual aircraft, and they had the industry contacts to ensure their products were accurate. So, in 1986 when they decided to release a model kit based on the ultra-classified F-19 stealth jet… well, they must’ve had some kind of insider info. Right? Well, sort of. "At Least 90% Accurate" See, John Andrews, the designer at Testors who came up with the model, was an industry insider. His boss had flown an F-4 Phantom during the Vietnam war. He knew who to talk to, how to access what little public information there was, and was extremely familiar with the technology in less-classified military planes. When his immediate supervisor asked if he could re-create what the F-19 looked like, he was confident he could do it, literally claiming he could come up with one that was “90% accurate” (his words) to the real vehicle, even though no images had ever been released to the public. And the company was so confident in his abilities, in fact, that they held meetings to assess if they were running a risk of revealing secrets to the Soviets. (They determined this was not the case.) Andrew’s design had swooping curves, a shape somewhat reminiscent of a rounded-off SR-71 Blackbird, with inward-tilting tail fins, and no visible jet intakes. It was mysterious and sci-fi looking, but just grounded enough to feel like a real military vehicle. It was also, despite Andrew’s insistence to the contrary, entirely fictional. All the same, Testors put them out for sale, along with the rest of their new products for 1986… and they got more or less ignored in favor of the airplanes that had been featured in Top Gun that same year. Or, at least they were ignored right up until a newspaper reporter in Ohio walked into his local model shop and said “hey, what the hell?” That reporter, Tim Gaffney, then went and wrote an article in the Dayton Journal-Herald pointing out how odd it was that Testors was selling a model kit for an airplane that, according to the US Military, Did Not Exist. The Associated Press caught wind, and pretty immediately a whole media frenzy got whipped up around the Testor Corp, the company that was selling a model of a top secret military project. They were in the headlines across the country. CBS sent a film crew to shoot footage of the production lines. They were featured on the evening news with Dan Rather. At one point, US Congressman Ron Wyden stood on the house floor waving the kit in his hand, asking why he was able to buy and assemble a model of a jet that he, a member of the house, wasn’t allowed to see in real life. And remember that mysterious plane I mentioned, the one that crashed outside Bakersfield? Well, when the media featured that story, the images that accompanied it were the Testors design. As far as the public was concerned, Andrew’s F-19 was the stealth jet. Tom Clancy included an F-19 in his book Red Storm Rising. It got its own video game, and then a sequel. Hell, even G.I. Joe and Transformers got in on the action. And Testors? They were all here for it. The original production run of about a hundred thousand units had to be more than quintupled to around six hundred thousand to meet sales demand. For comparison, in 2019, Revell (another model kit maker) sold a bit more than a million model kits total. The F-19 literally became the best selling model kit of all time thanks to the media attention, beating out the then-frontrunner, AMT’s USS Enterprise kit. So Where Do We Go From Here? Testors had managed to stumble into the holy grail of corporate profits, standing at the fore of a cultural obsession with secret government projects. And there were yet more government secrets left to tap. Next on the list? Project Aurora. Aurora was supposedly a hypersonic reconnaissance craft that was designed as a follow up to the grounded SR-71 family of planes. Rumors were fueled by an accidentally released black-project budget labeled “Aurora,” and reports of unexplained sonic booms in California, and a black, delta-shaped airplane in the area around Groom Lake Air Force Base in Nevada. (Yes, that Groom Lake AFB). In all likelihood, however, it was not a real plane. “Aurora” was one of several codenames attached to funding for the B-2 Stealth bomber project, and this is in addition to the fact that hypersonic high-altitude recon planes are pretty much outmoded by modern spy satellite tech. Why risk putting a real person in a billion dollar aircraft, when you can get just as high quality images with an unmanned satellite in low orbit? Still, Testor was hoping to trap lighting in a bottle as many times as possible. So, they made a kit of the Aurora plane. And they didn’t stop there, oh no. They had to include the mothership that it launched from, as well. And the Soviet counterpart to the F-19, of course! And hey, stealth helicopters must be a thing, right? Well here’s their G.I. Joe-looking ass version of what that might look like, I guess. But we’re not done yet, oh no no. In a team-up with UFO conspiracy theorist fan favorite Bob Lazar (I'm not making this up), they even produced a model of a flying saucer that was allegedly an accurate recreation of the actual anti-gravity vehicle the military had developed. Still not good enough for you? Here’s the alien spaceship they based it on that 100% definitely crashed outside Roswell, NM. Remember who I said the target audience for Testors was? You know, engineers and airline pilots. Yeah, that’ll come up again in a second. The Big Reveal And then of course, in 1988 the general public got to learn what the super secret F-19 stealth jet actually looked like… And it was weird as shit. A bit like a cross between a collapsed tent and a child’s failed attempt at drawing a jet, the F-117 Nighthawk (as it was actually designated) was not really what anyone was expecting. First of all, it shouldn’t really have the F designation, because it’s a ground attack vehicle, but Air Force brass thought they’d attract better pilots by advertising it to them as a fighter jet. And as for the 117 designation, there’s no clear answer. The most likely I’ve seen is that captured Soviet planes were given 11X designations, and because the F-117 was test-flown out of Area 51 along with said Soviet planes, it was given a similar designation, either out of convenience, or possibly to further obfuscate what it really was. Second of all, it looks like a polygonal bat mated with a broken umbrella. Like, seriously, what the hell. Look at it. Nothing like the smooth, sweeping curves of Testor’s F-19. The proof of concept platform Have Blue which preceded the F-117 does bear a vague similarity to the Testors model (note the inward sweeping tail fins), but the model lacked the distinct “rendered on a PS1” vibe that the actual planes possess. So what happened to the F-19 models? Well, they’re still around. You can still find them on eBay for around $30, if you want. They even come in both 1/48 and 1/72 scales! And of course Testors did later release a model of the real F-117, but the damage had more or less been done to their reputation as Serious Military Model Makers. They’d keep producing model kits of real planes for some time afterwards, but they were less detailed, less accurate, and generally closer to being toys or playsets than scale model kits. Skip forward a few decades to today, and they recently announced they are shuttering their production of model kits entirely, switching their focus to paints, solvents, and accessories. Finally, why is there still no real life F-19? Well, there’s still no good answer. The only official line is the original statement about avoiding similarities to Soviet plane designations. There’s of course rumors that there really was (and still is!) a secret stealth jet called the F-19, but that seems somewhat absurd. My guess is that there was someone in the higher ups at Northrop who thought 19 was an ugly or unlucky number, or something. Toxic Death As a parting note, I’ll share my favorite little story about the F-117: In 1991, just after the F-117 had been declassified, YF-117 #781 “Scorpion 2” was chosen to be retired to the National Museum of the US Airforce at Wright Patterson AFB. Because it was a pre-production test craft (thus the Y in its designation), it wasn’t gonna be flying with the operational fleet. But before it could go on display, all of the super-secret stealth tech needed to be removed, including the coating of radar-absorbing material. Unfortunately, that stuff is nasty. Like, breathe one lungful as it’s being removed and you die of cancer and the black lung at the same time, nasty. On top of that, the sandblasting process didn’t use regular sand, but instead sodium bicarbonate crystals which are also incredibly toxic to inhale. Needless to say, everyone who participated in removing the coating was covered head to toe in protective gear, and also hated every second of the work. Once the plane had been sandblasted and gutted, it was scheduled to fly to Wright-Patterson where it’d be repainted with perfectly ordinary black paint, and parked in the museum. However, that meant that there was a very brief window where it’d be in the air unpainted. The team who did the paint-stripping, not about to let it leave without a sendoff, added a paint scheme of their own, resulting in the most metal as fuck non-stealthy sky-pirate stealth jet you’ve ever seen in your life. UPDATE BONUS ROUND I bought one and painted it lmao Sources: Paul Ciotti. 1986. “Tempest in a Toy Box : The Stealth Fighter Is So Secret the Pentagon Won’t Admit It Exists. John Andrews Shocked Everyone by Building a Model of It. To Tell the Truth, He Says, It Wasn’t All That Much Trouble.” Los Angeles Times. October 19, 1986. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-19-tm-5852-story.html. “How the Secret Development of the F-117 Led to the Birth of the Misleading F-19, the Stealth Fighter That Never Was.” 2020. The Aviation Geek Club. February 19, 2020. https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-the-secret-development-of-the-f-117-led-to-the-birth-of-the-misleading-f-19-the-stealth-fighter-that-never-was/. “The F-19 Stealth Fighter: Would It Have Worked in the Real World?” 2018. Hush-Kit (blog). May 25, 2018. https://hushkit.net/2018/05/25/the-f-19-stealth-fighter-would-it-have-worked-in-the-real-world/. “When Secrets Crash.” Air Force Magazine (blog). Accessed March 23, 2022. https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0701crash/. “Model Based on UFO Witness Description.” n.d. UPI. Accessed March 24, 2022. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1994/09/08/Model-based-on-UFO-witness-description/3157778996800/. John H. Cushman Jr. 1988. “Air Force Lifts Curtain, a Bit, on Secret Plane (Published 1988).” The New York Times (blog). November 11, 1988. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/11/us/air-force-lifts-curtain-a-bit-on-secret-plane.html. “History of Stealth: From Out of the Shadows.” Air Force Magazine (blog). Accessed March 24, 2022. https://www.airforcemag.com/article/history-of-stealth-from-out-of-the-shadows/. Rogoway, Tyler. “The ‘Toxic Death’ Paint Scheme Was The F-117 Nighthawk’s Most Outrageous.” The Drive. Accessed March 25, 2022. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4729/the-toxic-death-paint-scheme-was-the-f-117-nighthawks-most-outrageous. submitted by /u/ProfessorLaser to r/HobbyDrama [link] [comments]
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reddit.com |
ProfessorLaser |
Mar 25, 2022 |